Friday, April 10, 2009

Personal Finance Part 12 - Indebtedness

In this next article on personal finance, I would like to touch on the subject of debt. No doubt the news has been going on about credit card balances being rolled more often, amounts getting larger as well as people purchasing flats which are (to me) getting more expensive. The latest HDB flats which are part of the DBSS Scheme cost a cool S$720,000 for a 5-room larger unit, which is even more than the price of some mass-market condos. Yet there are people taking up these (over-priced) units. The TODAY newspaper also recently reported a jump in the number of luxury sports cars and marquees being purchased, as if Singapore was not going through its worst recession in 70 years. So what's up and can this seemingly strange phenomenon be analyzed ?

Perhaps I can start off by commenting on the general mentality of the youth I encounter these days. "Youth" in this case represents the Generation "Y", who are in their early to late 20's to early 30's. These youths have not been through the struggles which our ancestors have been through and have been living a life of economic prosperity and relative abundance compared with most of our peers in other South-East Asian countries like Indonesia and Vietnam. Some would say that this has made them spoilt and pampered and their thinking has also evolved to reflect this. Youth nowadays think nothing of splurging on fine dining, a new mobile phone or the latest gadget, all in the name of keeping up with the Joneses. In addition, most of them also have no qualms about taking up loans to finance huge purchases like cars and property, as they feel that they can sustain a steady cash inflow through their career and/or passive income which can help pay for their lifestyle. This view is inherently flawed and risky as the future is always uncertain and one should maintain a "margin of safety" (i.e. buffer) when taking up such long-term liabilities.

On to the subject of properties, there have been lots of news articles and advertisements recently in the Straits Times, Business Times and TODAY newspapers featuring mass-market condominiums and the new condo-like HDB flats. These are generally priced around $500K to $700K and the difference is that for condos, there is no salary limit while for the condo-like HDB flats there is a salary cap of S$8K combined for the married couple. Many of my peers have chosen "quality of life" by buying condominiums worth about $600K to $700K (one even bought one exceeding a million SGD !) and taking up loans as long as 30-35 years. For some, this means that they would be indebted to the bank for most of their adult life (and probably part of their retirement years as well), while for others who can afford to put down a larger downpayment, their loan tenure may be shorter but they will be more severely starved of cash once they had made the down-payment.

If you think about it logically, one is paying for a premium space in the sky as well as amenities which come at a high price. Condo living is considered something most people yearn for as a status symbol and I would argue that most would treat upgrading from HDB to condos as a sign that they have entered a new strata of social status. It's also one of the original 5 "C"s which continue to dominate the mentality of Singaporeans - Car, Cash, Condo, Credit (Card) and Country Club. Of these 5, car and condo are still considered prestigious and command a certain level of respect, even though it may set you back by thousands of dollars and put you in debt for most of your life. When friends of mine tell me they took up a big loan (e.g. $500K and above) and are paying for 30-35 years (sometimes even using cash in addition to CPF as CPF OA contribution is capped at S$4,500 gross salary), the first thing I ask is whether they had prepared for contingencies and whether they plan to be able to save any money. Having things as they are now are fine until you consider the fact that children may come next, as well as probably a domestic helper too. These increase the financial burden significantly and within 30 years, if one assumes 3 recessions in total (1 every 10 years), then there is a significant chance of either losing your job or getting a pay cut throughout this period. Putting this in context, it simply means that one should NOT over-leverage based on today's conditions as tomorrow may be very different indeed. A mortgage loan is not something one can shed off easily and one may end up being a financial prisoner to the bank or HDB without recourse. For me, I choose to live in an HDB 4-room flat and have a remaining HDB loan of about 8 years remaining (cut down from an original length of 21 years through consistent increments in installment payments in addition to partial loan redemptions, all through CPF). My aim is to be able to reduce the remaining tenure to about 5 years so that I can finish paying off the loan before I hit 40 years of age.

Another aspect to discuss are cars. Somehow, I can never understand why Singapore is one of the most expensive countries to buy a car. A brand new car (including COE) can set one back by about S$70K to S$80K, and higher-end models like BMWs and Mercedes S-Class can set one back by $150K to $250K. It's no joke because some cars cost as much as a 3-room HDB flat, and remember you can't live in your car and it doesn't have an attached bathroom ! Generation "Y" seem to be more obsessed with cars as I see many young people fresh out of University buying a car with zero downpayment using their first few pay packets. The banks have not helped either by extending the previous maximum 7-year loan to the present 10-year loan system, and with no downpayment required, one can chalk up quite a huge debt just to drive away with a fresh set of wheels ! I am always of the impression that behind every set of beautiful wheels is an equally beautiful loan. The TODAY article on the increase in sports car purchases is believable, as nowadays I can spot one sports car (2-door variety) almost once every five minutes as I sit in an SBS Bus. The driver usually looks very young and these days the incidence of young female drivers behind the wheels of such "cool cars" is increasing. Car loans are NOT amortizing loans are the interest is computed on a flat basis at the start of the loan tenure and divided by the loan period, so there is no help in paying off a large sum during the loan tenure as it does NOT reduce the remaining liability. In addition, cars are assets which depreciate extremely quickly and a second hand car about 3 years old may not even give you 50% of its original purchase price, even though the COE can last for 10 years. This is why I think cars are a bad proposition when it comes to building wealth, as they tend to drain a lot of financial resources and can be considered more of a liability than an asset (if you discount the "convenience" factor).

It's not unusual for people to own cars these days, especially when couples start having children and maids and need to ferry them around to their parent's place or the nearest child-care centre. Most married couples I know own cars, and many single young guys and girls also own cars, though I am quite confident most of the younger ones don't earn a salary exceeding S$3.5K a month. The thought of a car did cross my mind, until I considered how indebted I would be to the bank, and the fact that about S$1,200 a month would be spent on car-related expenses like petrol, ERP, parking, insurance and road taxes (including the installment). So for now, I am very happy to continue taking public transport like SBS Buses, MRT and the occasional cab.

So to summarize, I have discussed some aspects of indebtedness and my stand is that I avoid excessive debts when I am young so that I can enjoy a better chance of retirement when I am older. By controlling our WANTS and differentiating them from our NEEDS, we can endeavour to save more and ensure we do not build up long-term liabilities which will be hard to shake off when we approach our retirement years. One should also note that CPF OA contributions decrease with age and the chances of one finding another job are lower the older one gets. Hence, one should pay down more of their housing loan at the start of their productive working life rather than at the tail end of it.

Would any readers care to share comments and views on being indebted ? Do you think this is good or bad and what are your experiences to share in terms of owning cars and condos and other lifestyle products ? Do you think this consumerist culture should be encouraged or discouraged ? Feel free to comment, thanks !

35 comments:

dream said...

Personally, I hate the thought of being heavily indebted to the banks. Basically, it sets you out on the wrong path -- you'll end up having little to no savings as most of your disposable incomes go into interest payment. Financially, it takes the wind out of out of ones sail as you walk through the winding road of financial independence.

On the other hand, if you are prudent with the big ticket items, do give in to your little "wants" and whimsical needs. You definitely deserve some fun along the way, whatever it is. You don't wanna go through life, not experiencing this and that.

ziwen1 said...

Hi mw, I belong to the age bracket of the Generation Y u refer to in your article. I stay in a condo with my wife in the east. I have taken up a loan just under 500K with a tenure of 35 yrs. I believe in maximising my housing loan because I invest in equities too and hence cash is important to me. At current rates (below 2%), it is easily the cheapest loan I can find around, hence I have no intention to pay off my loan earlier even if I can afford to. I bought my condo just before the pick-up in prices in 2006, so I like to think that barring the recession, I have a certain margin of safety with regards to the equity I hold in my property.

As to your point about cars, I agree whole-heartedly. I consider myself blessed not to have any interest in cars from a young age. In fact, to stop myself from having an interest in buying a car, I do not even hold a valid driving licence! I am more than willing to pour $1,500 per mth into my mortgage than into a 4-wheeled (or more) machine, anytime. Lastly, I do not agree that a car is an asset with a depreciating value. I think it is a showing-off liability the moment it leaves the showroom and your loan starts running. = )

mm said...

Interesting piece of work you have there, MW.

I guess it is a matter of priority. Most of the younger generation I have talked to have trouble seeing themselves beyond a 5 yr time frame. As such they can only think linearly.

They expect their pay to go up by such a such an amt. every year. However, what they don't factor in is
1. Possibility of sickness/retrenchment. Retrenchment is a very high possibility once you reach 40. Age discrimination, unfortunately, is alive and well in Singapore.

2. Possibility of having to take care of aged parents/handicap children

3. The possibility of the mother staying at home to take care of the children

The typical Singapore couple will look at their current salary, stretch it a bit and try to buy the condo which they can most afford by using the longest loan.

At that point of time, retrenchment and children have not entered the picture.

So once the children enters the picture, they will get a maid which will add another $800 to their monthly bill, and we have yet to talk about the MPV to ferry the children to and from all their enrichment classes.

So once a recession and retrenchment comes along, they hanker down in their cubicle afraid that they will be the next in line to go. Hence they worked doubly hard and pray that they will not be the one to be asked to go.

Paiseh if I sounded too negative. Unfortunately, many couples whom I have encountered don't seem to want to jump out of the rat race and learn to smell the roses...

Just look at the recent unfortunate death of the DBS CEO. Who in their death bed wished they had spent more time in the office so that they can secure that promotion to pay off that condo with the swimming pool which they seldom use?? Most ppe., unfortunately, sees this only too late. :(

Sorry for all the ranting and yapping away... just wanted to share something from my heart in response to your piece.

broadmind3 said...

using debt can give you good profits if you time your investment correctly and get out before the bubble bursts.

6 years ago, I borrowed 400K to purchase a private property with 200K downpayment, which I sold for 800K profit at the peak of the property bubble in 2007. thanks to this single investment, my family now has a paid-up condo to live in and 500K cash and cpf for investments.

JW said...

Hi

As broadmind3 has said, and also as Robert Kiyosaki has said, there are good debts and bad debts. One book on property investments I have read even recommended to max out the housing loan if you are aiming to invest in property, because property compounds at a higher rate.

For me, I use the same principle. I'm a fresh grad who just came out of uni last year, and I have to pay up CPF Education loan. This is a debt that compounds at 2.6% p.a. I have sufficient cash to pay off, but right now, instead of paying off immediately, I used a major portion of this cash to invest into stocks like SPH, so much so that the average dividend yield p.a. can be >5~6%. Percentage wise, I will be earning more instead. Furthermore, this debt helped give me a uni degree, hence I would consider it a good debt. Only thing is, my SPH is bought with an average price of $3.65 :(

With regards to car, yes it is a liability. However, it can be an asset if you use it to earn money. For me, my starting salary is <$3.5k, but I give sufficient tuition such that the tuition income is actually more than my full-time job (post CPF). I do borrow a car sometimes to drive, and I can say that apart from convenience, it speeds things up and saves a lot of time. So it actually depends on how much your time is valued. The more valuable your time is, the lesser a liability a car is. ;)


Btw, I'm just a fresh grad, so my views might reflect that of a spoilt Generation Y :(

I'm learning from your blog posts, as well as others. Made a lot of mistakes in investments because I was too impatient at the start, but well... I'm learning... It's fortunate I only started learning and putting in money in mid 2008, and not in the midst of 2007.

Createwealth8888 said...

My thought:

Do we have a comprehensive WILL and Insurance in place? If not, likely we may have under-estimate the risks and too overly-confident.

The ONLY THING I can guarantee anyone, 100%. It will CERTAINLY HAPPEN and it is matter of time, sooner or later. Either or both happening.

The day when doctor brings us the bad news that we are about to DIE soon.

or

The day when police brings bad news to your family that we are GONE.

What will happen next?

Emotional shock (certainly)

Financial shock (maybe)

We can't really mitigate emotional shock but for financial shock, we can by all means to mitigate or better to leave behind no debts.

So don't give shock, and better NOT to shock your dependents and by taking out the calculator now and compute the amount of the debts payable by them. Take care of the debts payable while you still can, if possible adequately covered by insurance or ensure your dependents have the means to service the debts.

Createwealth8888 said...

Heard someone said there is good debt and bad debt. Good debt if only that person is alive and has the ability to service the debt. If that the person is gone tomorrow, the so-called good debt may become nightmare to the dependents. Late Ex-DBS CEO is good reminder to all, what appeared to be ordinary flu-like symptoms could ended up deadly.

Jeremy Ow Tai Pang said...

Thanks MW for the blog post. I personally own a car and is still paying the car loan. My car is a second-hand KIA Picanto. I do agree that car is a liability and if one can do without, it is not necessary to own one. For me, my tuition job requires me to be constantly on the move from places to places daily. Having a car helps me to maximise my working time daily since I spend lesser traveling time. So to me, owning a car becomes a good debt as it allows me to earn more income daily.

Createwealth8888 said...

Hi Jeremy,

Your car is not really a good debt but a fixed cost overhead for you to conduct your tuition biz. Good debts are those that give you better returns in deploying the borrowed capital after deducting interests due to the creditors.

musicwhiz said...

Hi dream,

I agree with you on this. The interest payments can end up adding more than 50-60% to your total debt.

And yes, I am learning to take some time to enjoy the small things in life. No point being a miser all your life and not enjoying the fruits of some of your labour !

Regards,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi ziwen1,

Thanks for sharing your situation. While I believe that your rate is currently among the lowest in Singapore (HDB rate is 2.6% concessionary), banks have the liberty to hike it up any time they wish. If yours is pegged to SIBOR then I forsee only one direction in future which is UP as interest rates are at all-time lows. This may mean you end up paying more or the same amount as the years go by even though you have cleared off some of your principal. But since you bought your condo at a good price, then yes I do believe you have a good safety margin. Servicing the loan is still important though, make sure you have enough cash flows for that.

Seems you also share my views on cars haha. I guess if your condo is near the MRT and bus stop then there is no necessity to own one at all. I know some who buy properties in the more "ulu" areas. They are cheaper but the catch is that they will "need" a cr to commute.

Cheers,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hello MM,

Thanks for visiting and sharing your rich experience. What you say is truly what I have been witnessing as well, as I believe those friends I spoke to who bought an expensive condo have perhaps over-stretched and not thought of 10-20 years down the road when kids may come along.

For myself, a 4-room flat is enough for 2 children which I eventually plan to have, and thus I do not have plans to upgrade in the near future (5-10 years).

Thanks for your thoughts and even though it may sound negative, it's a reflection of the truth which people may not wish to face.

Regards,
Musicwhiz

Simon said...

those young ppl who own cars could be a lot smarter than you and me. i mean, they could have invested back in 2005 and sold their stocks like ezra and swiber or any other s-chip stocks at those stratospheric prices back in 2007 instead of just holding on to it.

as we all know, those stocks multiplied like 5x-7x during the bull market.
if they did that, i think they deserve a car. those fresh graduates probably have a lot more cash than what u think.

im x-generation btw. =)

musicwhiz said...

Hi broadmind3,

With all due respect, timing the market cycle is far from easy. When you purchase a property, you are using a lot of leverage. In your case, you took a $400K loan to purchase a property worth $600K which means you leveraged 66.67%. It's risky to be highly leveraged when the economy turns as one can face many problems like pay cuts and retrenchments.

You say you sold the property for an $800K gain (i.e. for S$1.4 Million). Is there really such a property that can more than double its value from 2003 to 2008 ? If so, then you must be really a property guru cos it's not easy to identify cycles and even tougher to get out at the right time. Kudos to you for that !

Cheers,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hello JW,

I think that's the main problem with "cheap" and "good" debt - the consistency of returns from investing the cash which you withheld from paying off the debt has to be higher than the cost of the debt. In the short-term, perhaps this can be achieved but to do it over a long period of time is not easy. In your case, the dividends from SPH are helping to offset some of your capital loss but overall there is still a loss, so it can be argued that it would have been better (on hindsight) to pay down your education loan.

As for the car, yes I agree with createwealth8888 in that the cost of the car is supposed to be deducted from your tuition proceeds rather than seen as an "asset". Although it cuts down your travel time, it is also a recurring cost and must be incurred for you to do what you need to do (i.e. give tuition). Unless you argue that you can squeeze in even more students than before due to the presence of the car, then perhaps it is a good incremental gain for yourself.

Good luck with your investing ! All I can say is don't stop learning. :)

Cheers,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi Createwealth8888,

Thanks for your comments, I think most people don't really think of a will or dependents when it comes to financial liabilities, so it's good of you to highight that !

Yes, I agree we need adequate insurance coverage to ensure our beneficiaries (loved ones) do not suffer should anything happen to us. We would want them to be able to carry on with life without significant liabilities.

As for good debt versus bad debts, we must also ensure we protect ourselves and our loved ones from any debts should we go suddenly, so this ties back to the belief that adequate insurance coverage is extremely important.

Thanks,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi Jeremy,

Wow quite a few tutors here who are reading my blog !

Actually, I myself am tutoring part-time in addition to my full-time job and I myself do not own a car. There was a time I had up to 3 students and had to juggle many weekday and weekends to teach all of them. Most of my students are quite surprised I do not own a car as most of their tutors did. For me, I chose students who lived quite close to my area and rejected those further off; plus I used my trusty Bicycle to get myself around, along with a change of clothes after the sweaty ride. If it rains, I take a direct bus instead. Have been coping quite well with this arrangement so far and I still have one student this year; so perhaps the car is only really useful if you are tutoring full-time.

Just my thoughts on this. Anyway yours is a 2nd-hand car so at least it doesn't cost too much, but there will be more maintenance expenses to be incurred as a result.

Regards,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi Simon,

Somehow I really doubt there are many people who managed to exactly buy Ezra, Swiber at lows in 2003 and 2006 respectively and sell out at the peak of the bull run. It's nice to imagine there are such people around but personally, I have yet to run into one who is even close !

It's a lot of hindsight analysis when one compares the 52-week highs and lows, so no offense, but it would have been easy to say so looking back but a lot harder to do moving forward.

Cheers,
Musicwhiz

broadmind3 said...

Hi musicwhiz,

Yes, I bought my property for 600K and sold for 1.4M. I agree that market timing is not easy and not recommended for everyone, but this is how speculators like george soros earn huge profits, by leveraging during a bubble and cashing out before it pops.

Singapore seems to be prone to property bubbles due to the limited supply of land and a property-mad mindset, so I think it's safe to assume there could be another one to ride on within the next 5-7 years after this recession is. Getting in is not difficult if you buy low (e.g. $800psf or below for a freehold condo in a prime district). The difficult part will be to cash out before the bubble pops.

Good luck!

Kris said...

That insane to be in-debt for a million dollars..either in Sing or Malaysian ringgit..

Pay until death do them apart..!!

Nice blog..will link you :P

musicwhiz said...

Hi broadmind3,

Wow that's great congrats ! I wish I was in your situation too with a paid-up loan and excess cash, but I would not dare to take the kind of risks which you took. For now, I am still "green" to property and will take some time to study the market before committing.

Perhaps I am too risk-averse, but I feel it's better to stay the way I am now and build wealth slowly than to risk losing it all on a bad bet. Since I don't know properties as well as equities, I will not know what is my margin of safety.

Thanks,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi Kris,

Yes, it sounds insane to me too, but many people I know of can live with it quite comfortably and sleep well at night. If it was me, I couldn't.

Regards,
Musicwhiz

JW said...

Hi,

for me, I consider myself a full-time engineer as well as a full-time tutor. ;)

Fortunately for me, for tuition, a number come over, so I do not need to travel that far... Hence not as much need for a car...

musicwhiz said...

Hi JW,

Wow ok, that's interesting ! Yes good that some students come over but this also means you have to charge less as it reduces your commuting time ! That's one reason why I prefer going to the student's place. Another is because sometimes they come over and forget to bring this and that and you can't carry on with the lesson. This won't happen if you are in the student's house as they can retrieve from their room.

Cheers,
Musicwhiz

mm said...

Dear MW,

Looks like your post had quite a few replies, perhaps it struck a chord? It is always good to generate discussions.

With regards to your reply to Simon, I have to respectfully disagree that market cannot be timed.

I have stopped posting in Huatopedia for some time now. We know STI trails US mkt, give or take a couple of days. However, when the mkt broke down last year in May 22 and Ezra was around 2.70 if I remembered correctly. I did post in Huatopedia to warn forummers that uptrend was broken.

When uptrend is broken, it is always good to take profit on longs and/or initiate shorts.

http://wookup.com/finance/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=46&start=40

"Market just went into a correction last night. I will post more when I get a chance this weekend while at home to grab the charts etc...

In the meantime, I have closed all my long positions with the help of my broker and started my short positions."

Since then there was an uptrend that lasted 5 weeks in Dec 08 which I also posted when it broke.

http://wookup.com/finance/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=1679&start=40
"Like what we reported last Tuesday Jan 06, a series of distribution days in close succession means uptrend is dying. We hope you have taken your profit off the table last Tue/Wed when we reported that mkt uptrend was straining. It was a good run and many counters have run up 20-40% in a short 5 weeks since the follow thro' day on Dec 2. "

The current uptrend we have started on March 12 which I also posted in Huatopedia. Then Ezra was 51cts. I know cos' I wanted to trade it :P

http://wookup.com/finance/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1840&start=50
"NYSE scored a follow thro' day on Day 5 of attempt rally. Even though Nasdaq's volume was higher than previous day, it was only Day 3 of Nasdaq's attempt rally as its recent Nov lows was undercut on Monday."

The run up since March 12 was FANTASTIC!!! Hope alot of ppe. are raking it in.

I am not here to defend or criticize any strategy.

I am just here to show that mkt timing is NOT a myth and CAN BE DONE. You just need alot of hard work if you want to make money in the market.

Cheers,
mm

Ricky said...

Hai, i'm one of those Y gen guy who bought a car w/o considering the cost. Thankfully, my brother started a family and offered to take over the car. I think for young ppl, they need to experience it then will gain the wisdom. Generally, don't all human beings learn through experience more than advice?

musicwhiz said...

Hi MM,

With due respect, I have to insist that even though you can time the market effectively (and you have proof to show this), many others (I would think a vast majority) do so in vain. Either that or they may not have the conviction to plonk down a lot of money like what George Soros does ! Isn't it true that 95% of traders lose money ? It's not just about reading trends and charts and volume, but also about controlling your own emotions. I am sure you are very good with both aspects, but others may falter with either one, which makes them susceptible to frequent losses while trading.

As for me, I am not here to prove value investing is "better" than trading. It's a technique which works for me as I do not have the time or patience to analyze tons of charts which I personally feel could be better spent in identifying a very good company. I also don't have time to watch the market and to initiate long and short positions when I see a trend change.

Good for you if you caught the rally from March 12 - I am sure you would have made a lot of money.

Haha, just a joke, but if there were more traders like yourself in the market, it would put us value investors "out of business" !

Cheers,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi Ricky,

Thanks for being so candid, appreciate your honesty. And it seems to be true that most couples who have kids will procure a car. I have yet to see an exception to this !

As for "experiencing" it, I would rather learn from others' mistakes than make the mistake myself and "suffer" from it. You don't need to try Heroin to know that it is harmful.

Regards,
Musicwhiz

Ricky said...

Haha, maybe i'm those type quite ti ki one...must kena burn then scared :)
Quite thankful that i didn't lose much as i didn't have much to begin with.

Createwealth8888 said...

Value Investors are farmers planting Winter crops and waiting for Spring to come, and when crops seem ripe, they may harvest them. However, even the crops seem ripe, they may feel that the crops can still grow further.

Traders are not farmers, they are hunters. They will shoot any weak animals that cross their path, and they will run quickly when pounded by Tigers.

There are no right or wrong to be farmers or hunters if they can find food to fill their stomach.

If farmers try to hunt or hunters try to farm, they may go hungry.

Createwealth8888 said...

aiyo,

I have three kids and travel around with BMW (Bus, MRT, Walk) and sometime by taxi on case by case basis. But, now they are 21, 19, and 14.

JW said...

Actually, why they come over is because I'm trying to do group tuition. Normally I'm faster than my students, so there's quite a bit of time in between where they are thinking and I'm resting. So by charging less per student and doing group, I can keep myself active (and happy) all the time while they think through their questions.

And hor, when you go to the student's house, you have to take into account the opportunity cost of your time. They do leave things in school as well... Anyway for me, I also prepare a lot of my own questions, so no problems ;)

Anyway since you are also a fellow tutor, would like to share my website with you.
http://examworld.blogspot.com
Feel free to take any questions to teach your students :D But do take note that the solutions provided might not be 100% correct

musicwhiz said...

Hi Ricky,

Yep, it's good that you realized it before the problem got worse.

All the best !

Regards,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi 8888,

Yes, I agree value investors are farmers. They wait for the crops to grow and mature. After that, every year we can have a good harvest (dividends).

Cheers,
Musicwhiz

musicwhiz said...

Hi JW,

Thanks for sharing. I guess there are pros and cons for tuition at one's house versus at student's house. But for me, I usually go to student's place.

Regards,
Musicwhiz