tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post3128518424631397262..comments2023-10-12T21:12:41.408+08:00Comments on Value Investment - Musicwhiz's Journey: The Hype over Dual ListingsMusicwhizhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-63305633685510443722010-03-30T23:26:27.748+08:002010-03-30T23:26:27.748+08:00Hi Mervyn,
Yah well Hengxin is just another one o...Hi Mervyn,<br /><br />Yah well Hengxin is just another one of the dual listing aspirants. Nothing too surprising with Mr. Market's reaction. He's been reacting like this to almost all dual listing announcements anyway.<br /><br />I would assert that you are neither right nor wrong just because Mr. Market tells you something. Over the long-term, it's whether you can maintain a decent return on your investment which will determine if you had chosen the right company, and not by judgement from short-term price movements.<br /><br />That's what I firmly believe in; though I probably sound like some dinosaur in a museum.<br /><br />I should charge entrance fees....LOL !<br /><br />Cheers,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-80675443616903296162010-03-30T16:22:08.407+08:002010-03-30T16:22:08.407+08:00Henxin tech went up lots today. Given that its not...Henxin tech went up lots today. Given that its not even confirmed ..its like an extremity to yr examples. <br /><br />In fact I looked at the counter way before it announced dual listing. Not cheap then, but now worse. Sometimes I really wonder have I gone wrong in my analysis.<br /><br />Anw, nice chatting with you on NIS forum and I linked u to my blog. CheersMTH Investmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00523146218701602591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-19034797018872858602010-02-02T10:42:16.127+08:002010-02-02T10:42:16.127+08:00Hi Roger,
Well if you ask me, ADR are not truly a...Hi Roger,<br /><br />Well if you ask me, ADR are not truly a "dual listing". No new shares are being sold, but the shares are simply made available to the American investors. That said, I do agree the purpose is still dubious, which is to encourage more "liquidity" in the trading of the shares.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-12837437576647068932010-02-01T23:59:49.603+08:002010-02-01T23:59:49.603+08:00Pac Andes has also jumped onto the bandwagon.
How...Pac Andes has also jumped onto the bandwagon.<br /><br />How about ADR? Is it also mere hype?Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14916607764518042154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-47150036282708725632010-01-26T08:02:35.740+08:002010-01-26T08:02:35.740+08:00Hi dsea,
Yeah well valuation is a matter of persp...Hi dsea,<br /><br />Yeah well valuation is a matter of perspective, and there is no "right pricing" as you put it, there is simply a transaction based on the concept of "willing buyer, willing seller".<br /><br />I guess the thing I emphasize is to look for margin of safety by choosing to buy at lower valuations, and selling out when valuations seem excessive in relation to the projected growth of the Company.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-71133313107985532092010-01-25T01:08:15.964+08:002010-01-25T01:08:15.964+08:00yup Muzicwiz....
indeed, valuation is interesting...yup Muzicwiz....<br /><br />indeed, valuation is interesting. <br /><br />As seller, we want best pricing, as buyer we want best pricing too. What is therefore "best pricing"?<br /><br />Would you buy an IPO if the seller is Warren Buffet? the fact that he is a seller may flop an IPO....as such, the most recent Insurance Company IPO in NYSE(read in newspaper, forgot the name of IPO)dseahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15659015361274204794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-3339182909450523752010-01-17T08:41:39.289+08:002010-01-17T08:41:39.289+08:00Hi Dsea,
Good point you brought up! It's true...Hi Dsea,<br /><br />Good point you brought up! It's true that some bourses can better value certain types of companies, like the examples you had given. One which immediately comes to mind for me is Oslo Bors, which can value oil and gas companies very well. Guess that was why Ezra chose to list EOCL there!<br /><br />But on the flip side, if you are a long-term owner of a business, you won't really bother about "higher valuations" in order to sell out. You would just sit tight on your shares.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-37820242516676223632010-01-17T08:39:45.394+08:002010-01-17T08:39:45.394+08:00Hi Latte Money,
Thanks for visiting, have added a...Hi Latte Money,<br /><br />Thanks for visiting, have added a link to your blog.<br /><br />Regards,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-14944508322899421392010-01-15T23:41:42.088+08:002010-01-15T23:41:42.088+08:00Hi Musicwhiz
Different valuation in different ind...Hi Musicwhiz<br /><br />Different valuation in different industries in different exchanges is the norm.<br /><br />This could be "clustering" effect. Investors like certain industries and value it accordingly.<br /><br />eg., Aussie and canadian stock exchanges had been host to mining stocks. Similarly, if the mining stock list in Singapore, they will not get good valuation. <br /><br />Likewise, if you are a property firm, you would choose HK for your listing as HK are obsessed abt property and banking. Manufacturing in HK bourse get the short end of the stick with lower valuation.<br /><br />Bursa malaysia is host to at least 5 latex/nitrile glove related companies. (which bring wonder to why a Malaysia company in latex/nitrile glove manufacturing wants to list in SINGAPORE?)<br /><br />NASDAQ had been host to high tech and NYSE more to the old traditional blue chips.<br /><br />Frankly, management owes a duty to existing owners to search for best listing bourse. Would you prefer to sell your shares in your firm at a higher valuation or lower valutaion?dseahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15659015361274204794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-6508052942905260232010-01-15T16:13:09.224+08:002010-01-15T16:13:09.224+08:00Nice analysis. I had initially thought that it is ...Nice analysis. I had initially thought that it is a positive move for these companies due to all the hype. Now I know better.<br /><br />Btw, I was wondering if you'd like a link exchange with my new blog on personal finance at http://www.lattemoney.com/<br /><br />In fact, I have already linked to you.Latte Moneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16048588464222810338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-7931589088945406202010-01-13T23:36:41.101+08:002010-01-13T23:36:41.101+08:00Hello Dancerene,
Thanks for listing those good re...Hello Dancerene,<br /><br />Thanks for listing those good reasons for dual listing! They act as a counter-balance to the negative aspects I highlighted in my post. I admit I may have been too cynical when I penned the post, and hence left out the positive aspects of dual listing.<br /><br />Regards,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-79357371884443745522010-01-13T23:35:00.010+08:002010-01-13T23:35:00.010+08:00Hi test,
Well, you've got a point in that the...Hi test,<br /><br />Well, you've got a point in that the company is still the same company; but the problem I have is that the dual listing is being hyped up and people are making profits from the hype, instead of basing it on the fundamentals of the Company. I have no issue with companies which genuinely need to raise funds for expansion.<br /><br />And as you have said, using debt is not always a good thing, but depending on circumstances, may be better than equity issuance. So one must see the conditions and the situation.<br /><br />Thanks for the comment.<br /><br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-38990201350005462732010-01-13T17:25:35.126+08:002010-01-13T17:25:35.126+08:00Other reasons for dual listing may include:
- to d...Other reasons for dual listing may include:<br />- to diversify investor-base (esp. for companies seeking strategic investors) <br />- relative ease of raising cash due to greater interest from overseas investors (esp. for companies with established presence in that market) <br />- create greater awareness to faciliate penetration into that market <br />- intention to delist from SGX after successful listing in other stock exchange.Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427714236536983019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-2934683155934122402010-01-13T12:35:52.905+08:002010-01-13T12:35:52.905+08:00Shouldn't value investors be neutral instead o...Shouldn't value investors be neutral instead of negatively bias against a stock which is opting for dual listing? After all, as what you've said, dual listing doesnt affect the fundamental of the stock. In fact, only those company which show potential for future growth will be approved to be listed, won't it be happier for stock holder that other people see the potential of the company? If leveraging to expand is bad, it will be contradicting to buy stock listed in the stock exchange in the first place. I m quite confused over this...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00328582081951432534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-26783257858668753382010-01-12T23:39:04.504+08:002010-01-12T23:39:04.504+08:00Hi cif5000,
I concede that you are probably right...Hi cif5000,<br /><br />I concede that you are probably right. Management was watching the share price and volume to do their listing in order to raise proceeds. I am not trying to hide that fact - they did it to raise money for their expansion. But arguably, the examples I have shown in my post consist of Taiwan and Hong Kong where valuations are known to be much higher than SGX. For Tat Hong to list on ASX then SGX, I do not think it was a valuation issue, so I do not think Management deliberately did so to bump up the share price.<br /><br />However, you are right to say listing offers access to capital markets. I'll admit that is indeed one of the reasons for companies to tap different bourses, and thus should not be construed as a totally negative thing. Perhaps I had been too cynical and caustic.<br /><br />Does that change my perception of Tat Hong? Well, I must say I am not as impressed with the Management as say, Boustead or MTQ, because the way they handle cash is not as efficient as the two companies above. But then again, it could also be due to the nature of the business and the economics of the industry; so it's a little like comparing apples to oranges. I think Management did a decent job of running the company through several booms and busts; but of course you are free to differ on your opinion of that.<br /><br />Don't worry it's never too long a comment. Donmihaihai used to come up with much longer stuff, and I also read it word for word. What you guys say is important!<br /><br />Thanks,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-69819077695064125772010-01-12T23:09:19.529+08:002010-01-12T23:09:19.529+08:00To keep it short.
Why ASX first? Why dual list (f...To keep it short.<br /><br />Why ASX first? Why dual list (for a period) before delisting from ASX? Was the management watching share price (of course they did)? And volume (YES!!)?. Does that tell us anything about the management (good or bad)? <br /><br />Tat Hong gone thru that earlier. Does that influence your perception on Dual Listing? Or Tat Hong? Or that Tat Hong could be classified as exceptional?<br /><br />My take is that the primary aim of all listings is to access the capital market. <br /><br />Oops...too long.cif5000https://www.blogger.com/profile/06501446537384033686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-55751573063270841782010-01-12T17:46:53.123+08:002010-01-12T17:46:53.123+08:00Hi cif5000,
You are right! I believe they deliste...Hi cif5000,<br /><br />You are right! I believe they delisted to cut costs from dual listing. As to my views on it, I think they were trying to raise more money at the time to expand their crane fleet. There isn't much info on the rationale at the time for dual listing, but from what I know they started out listing on ASX then later listed on SGX as they are a Singapore company after all; later on they decided to delist from ASX as it was costly to stay listed on both bourses and there was no point in maintaining it.<br /><br />Hope that answers your question. You always pose very nice questions, especially about Tat Hong. :)<br /><br />Cheers,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-87237494527822986722010-01-12T17:34:55.045+08:002010-01-12T17:34:55.045+08:00Before they delisted from ASX, they had a dual-lis...Before they delisted from ASX, they had a dual-listing.cif5000https://www.blogger.com/profile/06501446537384033686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-766246673586666182010-01-12T17:00:58.031+08:002010-01-12T17:00:58.031+08:00Hello cif5000,
Tat Hong is not dual listed on SGX...Hello cif5000,<br /><br />Tat Hong is not dual listed on SGX and ASX. You must be referring to their 70% owned subsidiary Tutt Bryant which is listed on ASX. They also own about 20% of Yongmao which is listed on SGX.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-1637922123482579372010-01-12T15:24:23.613+08:002010-01-12T15:24:23.613+08:00What are your thoughts on Tat Hong's dual list...What are your thoughts on Tat Hong's dual listing?cif5000https://www.blogger.com/profile/06501446537384033686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-49105078865386509922010-01-12T01:33:49.087+08:002010-01-12T01:33:49.087+08:00Hi Xor,
You're welcome. Thanks for visiting!
...Hi Xor,<br /><br />You're welcome. Thanks for visiting!<br /><br />Regards,<br />MusicwhizMusicwhizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10950754156386935254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28021668.post-62747536187082474472010-01-11T21:12:58.631+08:002010-01-11T21:12:58.631+08:00hi musicwhiz,
thanks for the piece! couldn't ...hi musicwhiz,<br /><br />thanks for the piece! couldn't have said it better myself.xorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00168731909048442676noreply@blogger.com